Join Hebba Youssef, Chief People Officer at Workweek and founder & creator of “I Hate It Here”, the community helping thousands of HR leaders reclaim their voice as she shares how HR leaders can move from firefighting to shaping the future of work.
Join Hebba Youssef, Chief People Officer at Workweek and founder & creator of “I Hate It Here”, the community helping thousands of HR leaders reclaim their voice as she shares how HR leaders can move from firefighting to shaping the future of work.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
Guest Quote
“ If you have a CEO who's really business-minded, I would get them to care about the people by saying the more engaged employees are, the more productive they are, the better it is for our bottom line. Treating people well is good business. You just got to figure out how to position that. And I think a lot of current CEOs do realize that.”
Time Stamps
00:50] From Skeptic to People Leader: Hebba Youssef’s Path into HR
[01:52] Building “I Hate It Here”
[06:08] The Hidden Work: Emotional Labor and Boundaries in HR
[11:58] AI at Work: Where It Helps, Where It Hurts, What’s Next
[14:34] Future-Proof HR: Skills That Matter Most Now
[16:33] Leading Through Change
[20:28] The Tightrope: Balancing People Needs with Business Reality
[23:11] The Future of HR
[38:23] Remembering Your Why
Sponsor
I’m Telling HR is brought to you by Rippling, the #1 rated HR workforce management system that eliminates the friction from running a business. Visit Rippling.com to learn more.
Links
Subscribe to the I'm Telling HR newsletter – Join thousands of HR pros leveling up their leadership.
Connect with Hebba on LinkedIn
Connect with Vanessa on LinkedIn
[00:00:00] Hebba Youssef: HR is one of the most ignored functions in corporate America. We get this awful rep, like HR is not your friend. HR is there for the company. And I always kinda laugh and chuckle when people say that because I'm like, what do you think the other executives are here for? They're not here to be your friend.
[00:00:24] Vanessa Kahkesh: Hi, I am Vanessa from Rippling. I am super excited to be with our guest today, Hebba Youssef. She is the founder and creator of, I Hate IT here, and also the chief people Officer of Workweek. So super excited to have you here. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your journey, and I can't wait to learn more from you.
So excited to be here. Amazing. Okay, so let's just dive right in. Let's do it. I wanna start at the beginning of your journey. I know that you studied Middle Eastern studies in college and kind of had an untraditional path to hr, so what brought you into this world of HR?
[00:01:06] Hebba Youssef: Uh, I didn't want to be in hr like my first five years of my career, I was doing something else entirely different.
I thought I was gonna be like a product manager and I was kind of build tech. And then I went to a company to work for a former mentor, and one of my first projects with him was building a global learning program for the entire company. Three years went by and I was leading a global learning team. I was training people, sales training, tech training, and they were like, Hey, this job belongs in hr.
I was like, hr, I don't wanna be in hr. Like today, for real, like HR gets such a bad rep, which now being in hr, I think I get it a lot more. But at the time I was like, I don't want that for my career. And everyone just kept saying, but you're so good at this. You're so good at people. Like we think you would do a really good job.
Now I've been in HR for like over a decade and I guess I'll never leave. What sparked your desire to start? I hate it here. Ugh. What a good question. So, I work for Workweek, which is a creator led media company. We have like six media properties across B2B across various verticals and functions like marketing, FinTech, hospital execs.
And when my, the CEO of Workweek met me, one of the first questions he asked me was, have you ever thought about creative content? I was like me. The exact words I say to him and we like tell the story and laugh now is I said, who the F would care what I think? And he like looked at me and he said, I think a lot of people would care what you think.
And after that we like put together a proposal for me to like come on as the CPO and also to create content. And I launched, I hated here like two months after joining.
[00:02:38] Vanessa Kahkesh: Wow. And I, I know that you told me earlier that. It's been your three year anniversary. It's three years with building that community.
Yeah. Which is pretty insane that it's only been three years. I guess I'm curious, like from your experience building this community to now over 170,000 HR professionals, that's a, that's a lot of people. Yeah. What do you know for sure about what HR people really need right now with the state of the world?
[00:03:09] Hebba Youssef: The amount of times I send a newsletter and somebody replies, wow, I feel really seen and heard. Just makes me feel like HR is one of the most ignored functions in corporate America. We get this awful rep, like HR is not your friend. HR is there for the company. And I always kind of laugh and chuckle when people say that because I'm like, what do you think the other executives are here for?
They're not here to be your friend. They have like fiduciary requirements to investors, boards, everyone to actually make this company into something. So it's hard when I feel like HR is the one that always gets clowned on the most, like, oh, now your friend. So I, I feel like that external perception of hr, we internalize it a lot and we almost feel like misunderstood or not heard and we're, we hear things from various marketing materials that's like, oh, you have to earn your seat at the table.
And it's like, we're like the, the ugly stepchild of corporate America functions and. You know, launching, I hated here. It felt like a lot of people felt seen for the first time because I would say things like, oh, I had to advocate for that, or, I fought my CEO on that, or The employees are unhappy with me because I had to do X, Y, and Z thing.
But I had to explain to them this is why I had to do it. And so I think like that is kind of one of the biggest things I've observed with. I hated here that like HR people struggle and feel like they're not seen. They can't be themselves. No one really understands what we're going through. 'cause it is quite hard.
I don't necessarily get to be friends with everyone I work with because I have a different role and I see things so clearly that other people might not see. And it's almost like you have to have your guard up a lot in HR.
[00:04:48] Vanessa Kahkesh: Yeah. It's like there's the almost a disconnect sometimes between the other functions.
'cause HR sits at such a different like viewpoint of the company. Yeah. But you still have access to the entire company. You have access to all the people. Yeah. Which makes up the company itself.
[00:05:03] Hebba Youssef: I, I sometimes say like, we see people at their worst moments and at their best moments, and I think a lot of people associate HR with like hiring and firing, and those are like the two inflection points where people think of HR the most.
But really we're like behind the scenes doing a lot of invisible work that employees may never know. They may never know the battle I fought to get them that pay raise. They may never know the promotion I advocated for until I was blue in the face. And that like unsung kind of work, that like unrecognized work, it kind of adds up after a while and you almost feel like emotionally drained for like all the secret work you're doing.
And then you go out into the world and people are like, HR sucks. They're not your friend. They're the worst. And you're, and you're like, you don't understand how much work I'm doing behind the scenes that no one sees. Mm-hmm. It's kind of wild.
[00:05:51] Vanessa Kahkesh: Yeah, I'm also still learning like how much HR actually does too.
And it is like there, there's a lot of hidden costs, but behind the scenes, like what? What are those actually like? Could you share an example of some of the things that people don't know that HR carries that burden on?
[00:06:07] Hebba Youssef: Oh, but God. Well, if it's been the, since 2021, I feel like we've read headline after headline of layoffs and a lot of that work is done behind closed doors quietly, and you're having to help people make decisions about.
People you might genuinely care about and you're trying to navigate it in a way that sets the committee up for success and sets the employee up to exit in a way that feels like the most human possible. And I think that labor, that emotional labor is like really misunderstood at times. Like I don't relish someone losing their job, my goals to, if that's the circumstance we're in, to try to do in the most humane way possible.
But still, we're usually kind of like the face they see when that thing happens. While we can't control every decision the business makes, that got us to the outcome of needing to navigate a layoff. We're almost the people who have to execute this like big, horrendous project. And I think it's really hard, like I've had to do them and the feedback I've gotten is like.
You were like kind of cold during that process. And I like had to give feedback back that said I had to be cold. 'cause these are like friends and people I care about that we're talking about. And I didn't have to be cold in the delivery. But in planning it, you almost have to like turn off your human emotions at times.
Mm-hmm. And I think we really have to separate the thing we are feeling from the thing we are doing, which oftentimes the thing we are doing is not within our control. And like a lot of people like to think HR is like this, like puppet master, wait. Yeah. Who's making the decision?
[00:07:39] Vanessa Kahkesh: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:40] Hebba Youssef: But a lot of times I'm actually carrying out something that is an outcome of something I would have never chosen anyways.
[00:07:47] Vanessa Kahkesh: I'm really interested in, in that because I wanted to ask about. You're, you're kind of just dealing with, with what's being thrown at you like Yeah. Firefighter fighter. Yeah. Um, the dumpster fire. Yeah. Or, or obviously like you are the strategic architect as everyone wants to be, and I think it's like an, like a narrative that is not new.
Like this is something people know, but, but do you really think that HR has a chance to. To stop just like fixing what's broken and actually pave a path where they feel empowered and they feel in control of what they're doing. Like what does it take to really get there? Do you want the pessimist answer or the optimist answer?
I want the brutally honest answer.
[00:08:29] Hebba Youssef: A lot of us are inheriting circumstances that are not our choosings. So how often does an HR person walk into a company on day one? Quite rarely, right? Mm-hmm. My CEO, when he hired me, I was one of the earliest calls he made. He actually made it six months prior to me even accepting a role.
And he called me and said, I've worked at companies where HR was an afterthought. I actually want HR to be one of the earliest hires I make. Would you wanna join us? Interesting. And I said, no. For six months, I eventually, I came back to him and we worked on, I Am where I Am. But his idea was that like he had worked at companies before where HR was absent and it really made the environment awful.
A lot of HR people walk into those circumstances and we're given like, like, you know how there's like tech data? Yeah. We're given, or tech debt we're given like institutional debt. Got it. And now we have to, right. The wrongs of choices we had never made would have never made and probably advised against.
And so my like little pessimistic, brutally honest view of it is like we are given these circumstances and then asked to kind of fix them or make them better. Institutions just like people are kind of hard to change and it takes time and trust, especially for employees, especially when you think about HR.
Trust is like pretty low. I, I often say like we as HR almost start in the negative because every single person you know has a bad experience with hr. Just ask your friends, like go to your friends and be like, Hey anyone, what's your experience with hr? I guarantee you all of them will have at least one negative thing to say about hr mistreating them.
Maybe rightfully so or not, I don't know. I don't know all those circumstances, but like we have to then kind of write the relationship of like mistrust that employees have for HR all while trying to navigate an org into like its next phase and we inherit all of that. So now like when you say we're reactive, a lot of times we're reactive because circumstances have built up over time and now we are having to address them in real time.
Got it. The dumpster fires don't just. Happen. I feel like they've been brewing for a bit and someone just lit the match and boom, they've been building for a while. So that's like, I want HR to be in a proactive situation, but because a lot of us are cleaning up institutional debt, I think it most often we're in a reactive situation.
[00:10:55] Vanessa Kahkesh: It's interesting that your CEO though wanted to bring on an HR person. Early on. Early on, because some HR people, I guess what they inherit is also like the culture that's already ingrained in their, in the employees. Yeah. And it's like how do you change that if you're just like locked in there? And on top of that, dealing with all the administrative work or dealing with compliance and a global pandemic.
A global pandemic and like moving a company remote, um,
[00:11:26] Hebba Youssef: AI. Like, uh, the last five years have just been like a new thing, a new exciting challenge. Like, do you ever watch Love Island when they're like a hot new bombshells, enter the villa. I'm like, every day I'm like, A hot new challenge is like coming my way.
I can't wait. Yeah. 'cause like AI has like radically changed the way a lot of people are thinking and talking about work and like HR is at the center of a lot of change at orgs and so we are just trying to get the people. Where they need to be to be able to do their jobs well. And that in itself is like a feat every day.
[00:11:58] Vanessa Kahkesh: Okay. I wanna talk about AI then. In a world driven by AI Uhhuh, what are the workplaces missing? This might be a slightly controversial take.
[00:12:05] Hebba Youssef: Okay. I have to preface it with, I've worked at, uh, four venture backed startups. I love startups. I like live, breathe, and Die for like the early stages of chaos. And I love like all the things that can come with working at a startup, but with this introduction of ai.
I do feel like there's been almost like a hyperfocus on efficiency to an almost detrimental sense that the, the humanness of work is being lost. The, the thing that makes you and I different and beautiful and unique is almost being washed away by everyone needs to be hyper productive now, and we all kind of sound the same and talk the same.
It like worries me, like I can, when I read content, I know if it's something that AI has written or if a human being has written it, and I'm worried. The more we introduce AI into the workplace, the more we all become carbon copies of one another. And the thing that made you special, the thing that made me special, kind of gets lost in this idea of hyper efficiency and hyper productivity where we're all going to chat GPT and churning out the same stuff.
That we forget that we are human beings with like critical thought, and we can be analytical about the problems we're solving and that maybe this robot that's like trained on everything in the world, uh, isn't trained on the innovative ideas we're gonna have. Maybe it's not gonna come up with the solution to our biggest problems.
Maybe we, the humans who are experiencing those problems are going to be the people who come up with it. So I have like a very love-hate relationship with ai. When it started being like really talked about in the workplace, I made a lot of like Skynet, Terminator jokes. Like, oh, the robots are gonna replace all of us.
We're all gonna die. I don't make those now anymore. Because you know, it's getting kind of serious where they're saying there could be like a climate impact to the servers because we're all overusing ai. They're talking a lot about like what this could mean for entry level jobs in the job market. And those things kind of scare me.
So I say love hate with AI because I see clearly I think the negative ramifications and I also understand how it can help companies move into the future.
[00:14:16] Vanessa Kahkesh: Yeah, it's really tricky and it's interesting 'cause of how fast things are moving and Yeah. You know how fast technology's getting better as well, so I do feel like HR has an opportunity to play that role and like helping preserve that.
What are those top skills that really will matter?
[00:14:34] Hebba Youssef: I talk about two curiosity and creativity. Like I mentioned them when we were like on our walk earlier, like we should remain curious about everything. I grew up reading books, so I always talk about my love for reading in that I have been on a million plus Journeys.
I have met a million different type of people. I have met Wizards and Dragons. I read a lot of science fiction. I've met astronauts and people in space like. That curiosity for the world that I had as a kid, I feel like has really helped me in the workplace because so often the problem that we are presented with is not actually the problem we're trying to solve.
Oftentimes someone will present a problem to you. It's really the digging and the unraveling. It's like the hidden problem. The hidden problem, like almost the emotional, indescribable human problem. But if we lose that sense of creativity, if we go to chat GBT and ask, I have a, I have a direct report who's not taking feedback well and it spits out a response, but maybe there's like so much more to uncover.
Maybe that direct report is like dealing with some family situations. Maybe they're struggling to find caregiving for their children because that's a very real thing that's happening right now for working moms who have left the workforce again in waves. The last job report showed us moms are leaving again.
'cause the cost of caregiving is getting too high. Like, there's so much to unpack and if we lose that sense of curiosity, that childlike wonder, like we might never get to the problem of the, the root of the problem that we're trying to solve. So I talk about curiosity in that sense. It's also one of my core values, so I feel like, uh, a bias towards it.
And the other one is creativity. And so I create content. Like some days I wear my chief people officer hat. The other days I wear like my content creator hat. But creativity is like, uh, just a muscle we can build to help us think about problems differently, to help us come up with solutions that we've possibly never come up with.
It can change an experience for someone. Like those two I talk about quite a bit. And the third is another C word, which is kind of funny that I picked all C words. Um, change management. The world is changing so rapidly. So when I look at like HR leaders of the future, how do you actually take your organization and bring them to the next level, to the next wave that we're going through?
It's being curious, being creative, but also managing change. 'cause we wake up every day to like a fresh new thing that needs to change. If we can't guide our institutions from where we are to where we wanna go, you're gonna lose employees along the way.
[00:17:03] Vanessa Kahkesh: I also, I really like that last one too, 'cause it's like a little bit more, almost technical. And I, and I know that like on our walk we were mentioning too just how when HR like speaks to the Yeah. C-suite or speaks to the, the executives, you have to be strategic with how you position Yes. What you really want. Yep. 'cause it's like, you know what might be best for the organization, but everyone has their own incentives and I think a lot of HR leaders, maybe those who are not maybe leading that change management as effectively.
That's something that they can work on, but it's like, how do you even get there? Like how do you build that muscle to know that you're not just leading change in hr, like you're leading change across the entire company. Yeah. Like you have that seat already. It's already there, so, so what, what would you tell people?
[00:17:52] Hebba Youssef: It's so funny. I never thought I would say I was passionate about change management, but now I literally am passionate about change management. I wrote a whole newsletter about it because I've seen organizations try to change things and fail miserably, and once you lose that trust from the employees, it's so hard to gain it back.
And so when we're talking about change and like understanding, you have to know all your stakeholders, all the people you're working with, and you have to understand their motivations. Also what they're incentivized by. So if we're talking about the executive level almost. Yeah. Every, what's their incentive?
Profits. Shareholder tell you so, so when I go to my ceo, let's say that's not my C Well, I mean, I don't know. Or I guess let's use a fictional fiction. I don't, fictional, let's wanna put words into people's mouth. Yeah. But I mean, I assume like, you know, let's use a fictional CEO. Let's say they are motivated by profit.
Yeah. If I were to go position something to them, I wouldn't possibly go to them and say, Hey, you know, would be really great for employee engagement if we did this fun thing where we, I don't know, got the company together and did a company retreat. I probably would position a little differently. Like, hey, I've noticed, uh, you know, I know we're in cost cutting modes and we can't allocate budget to something, but employees have all really expressed that getting together and connecting and doing work together is actually like super beneficial to them.
Getting this like really tough project across the line. What would you say about us getting people together with the focus of two days being that we achieve this project that has been taking forever to get over the line and then we can deliver it to our clients in a faster timeline.
[00:19:24] Vanessa Kahkesh: Mm.
[00:19:25] Hebba Youssef: And it's, it's like the little things totally make a difference.
Well, I used to joke that like, I would not say I am good at manipulation. I'd like it to be on record. I would not say I'm good at manipulation, but I think a really good HR person will understand who is across the table from me. What are they incentivized by, and how can I position the thing I'm trying to do to get them their buy-in?
And to get their buy-in? You have to tell them what's in it for them. The way you position something to your CFO might be different from the way you position it to your COO might be different from the way you position it to your CEO. Those are different audiences. You are trying to essentially secure their buy-in.
Change management is the same on a broader scale. 'cause now you're dealing with, uh, groups of employees, you're dealing with managers, leaders, maybe directors. You're dealing with frontline workers. The way you position all of that should be a little bit similar but different. And you should be thinking about those.
Different types of groups that you're communicating with to get them to buy into the change you're trying to make.
[00:20:28] Vanessa Kahkesh: When you're like speaking to all those different types of people though in hr, like is the one constant still for you, the people, like does it always come back to the people? Yeah, the people.
And why it matters? Why does it matter? Like why do people still not understand or maybe prioritize people? How, how do you get people to actually truly care about the
[00:20:51] Hebba Youssef: people? I mean, human beings are like messy. There's a lot of different, okay, okay. If you have a CEO who's really business-minded, I would get them to care about the people by saying the more engaged employees are, the more productive they are, the better it is for our bottom line.
So like, treating people well is good business. You just gotta figure out how to position that. And I think a lot of current CEOs do realize that. We're in this like really interesting like push and pull in the employee market right now or like, uh, the broader labor market where in 2020 and 2021 we kind of saw the power was in the employee's hands and the scales have kind of shifted back to, it's in the employer's hands now.
And this inevitable push and pull between employee or employer can tell you a lot about the dynamics of what's happening in the market too. It's really fun to watch. And I say fun, I, it's actually not fun. 'cause sometimes employers, when they have the power will do things like pay less, they'll scale back benefits, potentially.
They'll force everyone back to an office taking away flexibility from people who desperately need it, from caregivers, from working moms. But when we saw the employees kind of have power, like especially Peak 2021. People were demanding a lot from their employers. And employers were like, holy cow, we have to rise up and match their demands just to keep our talent, to keep them engaged, to keep them wanting
[00:22:14] Vanessa Kahkesh: to come to work, especially with everything changing.
Yep. In the broader economy and like markets right now.
[00:22:20] Hebba Youssef: But I stand by the work of like I am in HR because I think people are. To a certain extent, your your greatest asset after your ip, your next most important asset is your people and the person directly responsible for moving those, that group of people forward is your head of hr.
They ultimately have so much power and potential over the actual day-to-day of the employee experience. If they have a CEO who is also aligned with that.
[00:22:49] Vanessa Kahkesh: It's ingrained within everyone. It's like everyone is aligned. So it's not just like HR trying to cool everyone. It's like we're kind of like rowing the boat together.
Yes. And that's how you actually move the boat and get your organization like the next phase. Yeah. Yeah. This is hard work. It is. It is hard work. We kind of talked about the origin of your journey and like the state of HR right now A bit. Yeah. Let's also think about the future because I still have hope that things can change, kind of change management.
So I want, I wanna talk about what your vision is. If you had a magic wand and you could wave it, like what would you want for hr? Such a loaded question.
[00:23:29] Hebba Youssef: I know, because I don't, maybe I would leave hr, you know, but like I did write a newsletter once about CEOs who started in hr. I think like the last 10 years, the CFO commanded a lot of power in the boardroom.
Rightfully so. When you think about a business cannot operate without its finances, but we've also seen in the last few years, a lot of heads of HR end up becoming CEOs. And I think that is like kind of a cool and interesting thing. Like a lot of the tension at a company could be between your head of HR and your CEO, because a lot of CEOs don't understand the power of hr.
So it's been interesting to me to like watch some, a heads of HR go into the CEO role. And, and what I want for HR in the future is that, you know, I joke about that seat at the table, but it like should be cemented like your people are your greatest asset. And probably why I would never leave HR is because I'm a loudmouth who has an opinion and I feel like someone's gotta advocate for the people.
Like in the, in the room of all executives. Like I like to be the person who's like. Now, how is this gonna impact the people? What expectations are we setting for them? How are we moving them forward? How can we support them? And I think that's kind of missing from a lot of rooms and that's probably why I'll keep doing this work.
Yeah. But like the future of hr, I could see a lot of HR going into CEOs. I could see us like really transforming organizations like how AI. The AI strategy, like I launched our AI strategy at my company. Mm-hmm. And internally, externally, I'm, I have no business doing that, but internally I think like that is gonna be interesting to watch how AI is going to evolve organizations.
I think it will change jobs. I'm not entirely convinced it will get rid of jobs. I know they have said it will, but if you look at like the broader world of ai, like. The AI piece is less exciting to me. Actually. The part that's more exciting to me is the re-skilling your employees. Yes. I
[00:25:25] Vanessa Kahkesh: know that we talked about that a bit because like
[00:25:26] Hebba Youssef: 1 billion people are gonna need to be re-skilled.
'cause jobs exist. Jobs will exist in the future that have never existed before. Mm-hmm. Which like fun for hr. I get to write that data, I get to like map that career path. Right. But also we're gonna have to teach our employees how to do those jobs.
[00:25:42] Vanessa Kahkesh: That's like a whole new level of re-skilling.
[00:25:44] Hebba Youssef: It's like a chess game that I'm like very into playing.
Because I'm like, what is this gonna look like? Like where is this gonna go? How are we gonna create these jobs? What does that mean for our organization? I keep saying that. I think a lot of jobs will be AI augmented. So like there'll be a a job description and it'll be like 70% human style work. 30% augmented with AI could be like a really interesting structure to think about in the future.
There's the Hollywood model where teams, like if you think of how a movie is made, that team comes together, makes the movie, and then. Goes at separate ways, and maybe they work with each other again someday. Like could we see more companies organizing around a Hollywood model of bringing a team together quickly to solve something and then separating them apart?
Maybe they leave the organization, maybe they go to different teams internally and they start the next big project. Like, I think work is
[00:26:37] Vanessa Kahkesh: going to change. Yeah. But then I think the thing that won't change, and I, we briefly talked about this before, I think was like the importance of connection. Yes. The importance of connection in the workplace.
Oh yeah. And it's like a hidden skill almost for every job. Yes. Like if you aren't able to connect to the people you're working with and you wanna also find meaning in what you're doing. So finding ways to also cultivate connection and Yeah. Is really important. We're like lonelier than we've ever been before.
Right. As a society. I mean there was the Loneliness Pandemic.
[00:27:09] Hebba Youssef: Yeah. And people are talking like one of the biggest use cases for AI is like therapy people are talking to. Yes. You're telling me about that. And kids are having girlfriends and like it's, it's very serious. Like I'm not making light jokes about it.
'cause like people have experienced cyclonic breaks. There was like a really scary article about Halluc halluc halluc. People hallucinate. Yeah. And then like you get that word out. So it's like there's a dark side to it too, but like we, so we need connection to thrive. Mm-hmm. And we have kind of lost it.
You used to go to work, meet your people, have water cooler chat, go to lunch with your besties. Like, uh, Gallup has a survey called the Q 12 engagement survey. And one of the questions they ask, even though they ask 13 questions, but one of the questions is, I have a best friend at work. People hate that question.
Like it's like a hotly contested question. People are like, why are they asking me about my best friend at work? Well, they have found in like manufacturing, when you have a best friend at work, you're more likely to like take safety seriously because you don't want your friend to get hurt. And that question has been like a staple in the survey.
And I think it's so interesting because like, I don't know what the data says if we like are losing our best friendships at work, but we're really lonely. Work is where people go to find community. So also, if we're looking at the future, if like people start talking to AI rather than talking to their colleagues, that connection or lack thereof is only going to get exasperated.
So our role in HR then also becomes how do we foster these really unique moments of connection, either one-on-one, between the employees, between the employee and the manager. Between the employee who's doing day in and day out work and the CEO who might be really removed from their day to day, but it's just as important for the employee to feel that connection to that executive level.
Totally. How do we make all that happen?
[00:29:00] Vanessa Kahkesh: And that's what creates culture. Yeah. Too. Yeah. Yeah. It's, and it's like when also when companies are going remotely, remotely, when companies are going remote. Yeah. And. You don't have that water cooler chat opportunity is on. You gotta foster in different ways. Yeah.
[00:29:19] Hebba Youssef: I'm like, I don't know how you do it at your company. So now when you're asking me like, is the HR just one big dumpster fire? It's like every day we're like, we're dealing with the loneliness, the connection, the pay, the culture, the development. AI is gonna take my job. The fear change is happening, our product is shifting.
We have to be profitable. What's our bottom line? What's the, all of these things. Just compound day in and day out. And the the wild part is it's all actually connected too. So like everything is interconnected in a really interesting and unique way. So yeah. Back to your question about why I would never leave hr.
I do feel like some days I'm like a doctor where I'm like, what's the symptom? What's the problem? Right? I'm like a detective chasing down all the ways everything is interconnected at work and like how it all comes to be so that you can have a good time at work that's like. Very selfless. I don't know. I mean, I still make money doing this job,
[00:30:14] Vanessa Kahkesh: so like, I wouldn't say that, but it's far.
I mean, HR people are really empathetic. Yes. Like I think you have to be really willing to, to know why you're doing what you're doing. Like you're doing it for a greater reason. And just,
[00:30:27] Hebba Youssef: I think I'm deeply stubborn and I want work to be better. Like, uh, the tagline I always say is like, life is too short for bad work cultures.
You could die on your job and they would probably replace you within like a week.
[00:30:41] Vanessa Kahkesh: I, I heard, I, I literally, I literally heard, I think it might've been on your podcast or something. I don't know if that is You could, I would have if, if an employee passed away. That's why you have to take care of yourself too.
You have to take care of yourself. That's something I was, I heard someone say that exact line where, because someone could replace your drop literally in a week, you need to take care of yourself. But then at the same time, it's like. Also, I think we as a corporation have a responsibility to also
[00:31:08] Hebba Youssef: care for the employee
[00:31:09] Vanessa Kahkesh: because it's like, I think people also forget that when you, when you go to work too, it's like you can't just hide and like remove your entire life beyond work.
You are bringing who you are in all aspects of your life. Yeah. Work. And I think the best work, like the only way to do great work is to love what you do. That's what. Steve Drop says, yeah, and it's like, and I, I actually genuinely believe like when work doesn't feel like work, when it feels like play, when it feels like fun.
Yeah. Fun. That's like when you do your best work. And that should, like in a, in a utopian world, I think it would be incredible to see companies where everyone wakes up and goes to work feeling like excited, and then you leave work and you're, you're happy. And you wake up and do the same thing the next day and you feel connection to what you're doing.
It's like greater than yourself and, and, and, and like, we
[00:32:03] Hebba Youssef: should have fun. Life is too short, aren't to life. Life is too short for bad work cultures. Like, I can't stop saying that, but like we, like, again, we'll add that to like the list of the long running things. Like we're also trying to figure out how to make you have fun at work.
We're also trying to figure out how to make you feel connected to your manager and the leader and the company mission and the vision and the goals and the values, all of that. Because it's all interconnected is the things that like HR is thinking about. And when it comes to like fostering connection in the workplace, I mean, you asked that and I feel like I didn't answer it, so I wanna get to the answer.
Like, I think for each organization it will look different. And that's probably a cop out answer. But like we in our organization, like, uh, we just have fun in Slack. We're posting like silly memes. We're like posting hot takes. We're arguing over what fast food restaurant has like the best burger. We do that because by CEO and COO, the two co-founders of the company show up as themselves in Slack too, and want people to also feel that way.
That's so interesting. So connection can look different for everyone. You just have to look at who are your players and how can I help them show up as themselves and that can foster the fun and the connection in the workplace.
[00:33:14] Vanessa Kahkesh: Right? It's almost like you have to connect to yourself. So that you can show up as yourself.
Yeah. And then that allows others to connect with the real you.
[00:33:24] Hebba Youssef: Gen Z gets well through the BS faster than I think any other generation, and people are craving connection and authenticity. So if you can create an environment where people can show up as themselves, have fun, play at work, but you will see the outcome of things feeling and looking different.
We had like a 56 thread long slack about pistachios. The hot take was shelled or uns shelled, and it was like an hour where the company was just like arguing about is it better if they're shelled or is it better if they're uns shelled? People really like to work for the pistachio, so they really voted shelled.
Everyone else said Too hard, too messy. I want, but we had that in Slack on like a random Friday simply because somebody said, how do you all feel about pistachios? I don't think like that person was not in hr and I'm not saying to go to Slack and just look great chaos every day, but creating these like little moments of magic.
Yeah, little moments of connection where people can state their opinion and how they feel. Also, the day Taylor Swift got engaged, everyone and their mom had an opinion on our ring and the engagement and what's gonna happen. And as she get like that just happened naturally. 'cause our CEO also loves Taylor Swift.
Yeah. So like it created this moment in Slack where we were just like. Playing and having a good time. It was culturally relevant to what was happening in the world, and we brought that from the world into slack. And then you saw people like spin off and have side conversations. You saw people who probably don't interact at all at work suddenly start having a sidebar about something else.
And those moments of connection go so far.
[00:35:00] Vanessa Kahkesh: But if no, if that person didn't ask that question about the pistachios. You wouldn't have the thread. Yeah, we, and then, but then also it's interesting 'cause if you take a step back further, it's like what gave them almost the, the common part to do that, because that's almost like a test for culture.
'cause it must, it kind of reveals that the culture in your company has that safety for the employee, like the employees there. They don't, they, they, they're, they're willing to, you know, pose a question like that. Yeah. But maybe in a different organization they wouldn't, and maybe that's okay. Like, maybe, like you said, there's a different way to cultivate that connection.
Yeah. But it's like navigating the different environments has a huge impact. I do think if your executives
[00:35:46] Hebba Youssef: aren't relatable, it can be a struggle to get your employees to want to engage with them to a certain extent.
[00:35:55] Vanessa Kahkesh: And I'm like, how do you change executives who just don't naturally feel relatable?
[00:36:01] Hebba Youssef: I mean, do you not remember all those, like the people CEOs getting roasted for like taking their COVID calls from like their second home and like on the beach and they're like, everyone has to be in the office.
And everyone was just roasting them. Like, I think as you go further in your career, you, you can't forget that the human being. At work is having an experience that might be different from yours. And so that empathy and the compassion for someone's lived experience and perspective, just showing that can go so far.
And so like executives who are so far removed from that. I think struggling to relate with your employees is like a challenge you'll have to face. You'll have to think about like, how do I get in and actually talk to these people? Our CEO used to do cold brew. Called them cold bruise with Adam. He would get like six people together on a virtual Zoom and just do like a fun coffee date, really.
And he did it with everyone in the company over a quarter. We should probably restart them again. He'll remind me in like the next week to do it. But he was like, every single person should have some sort of access to me and get to know me. And so he cleared his calendar and did that. And that's just like one small thing.
He also, like our, our founders meet with every single new hire. The first month they joined the company. Wow. And like a lunch where we get all of our new hires together. These little things sound so tiny, but when you expose people to the, to the executives, to their stories, to the things that they like, they become instantly relatable.
And again, like authenticity to me is king. A people will feel more comfortable to show up as themselves if they see others doing it. Wow. We have like lost organization, the childhood wonder. Of like existing in a, like a really fun and unique world. And if you can find ways to bring that back to the day-to-day work that play, I, I think it goes so far with people.
Mm-hmm. And it'll, it'll also impact the business in the long term. Yeah. 'cause people will show up happier, more engaged. Like if we're always bringing it back to the business and the profits like. The more happier, satisfied people are, the more engaged, the more productive they're gonna be. The more unique and innovative ideas they're gonna bring to the table, the less conflict you're gonna have to resolve As the HR person, like we should all just have fun at work, especially if you're a knowledge worker, you're just sending emails.
[00:38:21] Vanessa Kahkesh: Yeah, we can have fun. So to people watching today and to the HR audience and beyond, like what is one piece of advice that you would leave with them? I would say don't forget
[00:38:32] Hebba Youssef: your why. Why are you doing this job? Why are you showing up every day? Why do you care about these things? Because you have to also feel connected to the work you are doing, and people will feel your connection to the work if you understand your why.
And I think like my why is I have been mistreated at work. I have seen other people mistreated at work, so I show up every day to build a better experience for every single person at work. That is probably like the legacy I hope to leave on this earth is that like I've done something to help people have a better experience at work and help them understand that they are just a line on a spreadsheet or a number in the profits.
They're a human being who gets to experience this world. So like, always remember your why. I love that. I gotta think about my why. Why are you there? Just gotta think about it. Yep. Every, every now and then I like jot to myself, like, why question mark? And then I like go take a walk and think about it.
[00:39:36] Vanessa Kahkesh: It's so I'm more evil.
Like it's really important to be anchored to it. Yeah, because it's, it basically influences the way you do everything. I think I would've quit this work so long ago. 'cause it is not easy.
[00:39:48] Hebba Youssef: That's if I didn't understand my why.
[00:39:49] Vanessa Kahkesh: I mean, the only reason people are able to endure really, really hard moments is.
When you remember why you like why you started. Yeah. Yeah. That concludes our conversation. Thank you so much for doing this, and thank you to everyone for watching today. Yeah, this was amazing. I learned so much from you and I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. Thank you for having me.
Thank you again, and we will see you next time. Bye.